Yet another nice shiny brand new troll, of low intellect and high grandiosity, deleted and banned. Learn your place. This is my house. You will be respectful to me.
It wasn’t until I went to Lithuania that I realized that I’m an American of Lithuanian descent rather than a Lithuanian living in America or a Lithuanian-American. Being American and seeing oneself as an American culturally or ethnically is weird. Especially if, like me, several generations later, you still have 100% of your ancestry from one small other part of the world. Most Americans have a much greater mixture of ancestry. That said, Lithuanians born there but now living in North America accept me as “Lithuanian.”
Ah, St Patrick's Day. When everyone and their cat claims Irish heritage. And the day, in years gone by, when the IRA would go into full-blown fundraising mode in America. Another inconvenient truth.
I can see how it'll be harsh for some, but it bothers me too when people claim heritage that isn't theirs. It really resonated with me when you spoke about heritage vs who you are. I've been an immigrant my entire life, I have zero connection to "my roots", and I literally cringe when people try and force out of me where I'm "really from" to associate me with that culture.
Meanwhile, when I went to the US, it was such a culture shock for me to see so many identifying with their supposed ancestral culture, when they have very little to do with it. Some don't speak the language, some don't know the customs, some have never set foot in the place (and... you really need to live in a place for a very long time, be an active participant in the local community, etc. to be able to even remotely claim something like that).
It just deeply unsettles some part of me and it was nice seeing that someone else feels a little similarly. I think there's so much more nuance in the conversation over heritage than saying "I'm [insert nationality your parents / grandparents / whatever are]".
Nationality can also be pretty fickle. My gran was born in Ireland but her dad was born in Lithuania and her mother in Liverpool to a Moroccan father and a Ukrainian mother. My dad has taken Irish citizenship, and my sister applied and got it, but nothing about either of them is Celtic in any way. In the long run, the only real thing we can feel is Jewish, because that accurately describes our being of nationalities with no real ancestry. Except my sister and I (and our mother) do have Israeli nationality, where we also have the longest ancestral history of any of our bloodlines - six recorded generations. Yet my upbringing is basically British.
I was thinking about writing about people who pretended to be Irish. I was thinking about the grand actor Micheal MacLiammoir who was a treasure of the Irish nation and spoke the language fluently but had not a drop of Irish blood in him. Then a lot of people on Substack were referring to Erskine Childers, a soldier of the British Empire who died for Ireland (killed by the Irish who called him “that bloody Englishman” or words to that effect). I was sidetracked by English women who wanted to be Irish. I was then surprised to find that many of the women who fought for Ireland were lesbians. Please check out my posts on Revolting Gonne girls.
Reminds me of the joke about the good Irish Catholic boy who brought his bride to be home to meet his parents. He thought it best to come clean and admit to his upright parents that his fiancée was a prostitute. There was much agitation but eventually the father said, “That’s Okay. I’m a little hard of hearing. I thought you said she was a Protestant.”
I like the phrase “ding dong battle against reality.” I may have to steal it.
I would not dare to claim to be Irish and it is unlikely that I will live in Ireland again. Like most people I am a mongrel and a nomad. I tend to keep my head down and my mouth shut on St Patrick’s Day. I have spent a lot of time in Ireland starting in the 1940s (I am very old.) I have lived in Ireland. I have an Irish passport on the strength of my father being born in Cobh, CountyCork. Still have family and friends there.
Just removed another troll comment, and permabanned them from commenting. How stupid are you people? I don't allow trolling. You will be silenced. It's just not that difficult to understand.
I took up golfing for a while, based on the fact that I felt I should being it's so tied to Scotland, and my father quite liked golf. It is remarkably difficult and hugely exhausting, and I was a bit crap, but I feel like I should go back to it as it was great excercise, provided you walked the greens and did not use a golf cart.
If you like it, great. I don’t discourage others from partaking in something I don’t like.
The only reason that the Left doesn’t hate on it the way they do other white people activities is because they like it too. I always regarded it as pointless, and a way for out of shape and wanna be athletes to continue to do something competitive. Plus the cancer rates among greenskeeprs, the sexism, and racism early on.
I mean, I always say people should not stop doing stuff just because it's offensive. In my piece on Americentric writers I talk about Russ Abott, who had a very racist and offensive comedy routine he did about the Scots. As his mum was Scottish, he should have known better. But even though I loathed him, other people liked his act. Every time I saw a Scottish person depicted on national TV in the UK they seemed to be a violent, idiotic drunk, and it did deeply offend me. But I have no doubt I offend other people too, que sera sera.
I guess my point in this was just to let Americans know that they are not Irish. Some, like Donna, had never had the truth told to them bluntly before (in her case that she is not Scottish). Maybe they will think twice, but honestly probably not. And, also, I was bored and sick in bed, so it seemed like a good time to poke the bear.
I get very riled up by people telling me “Irish jokes “. I wrote an article about it for an Irish American website. I make an exception if the joke is funny but they seldom are. They are usually mean spirited and spiteful.
I’m giving this a heart, because I’m sure I agree, but I haven’t actually read it, because as an American, I think it’s going to sting. And, it stings enough right now as it is, thank you, no need to twist the dagger. We’re sorry. For everything.
Laughed a little. I like Americans, and I liked America generally. I just also like winding up entitled people, and as it was St Patrick's day it seemed like a good chance to poke the bear. Also, for some reason the Substack algo was pushing my notes at people, so I thought I should ride that wave, and I was sick in bed, bored. I've also found that my stats shoot up when I post a rant of some kind.
All in all, it really doesn't matter much, though it did bring a few trolls out of the woodwork, and passed the time entertainingly.
How do you suggest people talk about one parent from one country and another parent immigrating to Canada from another country?
I’m Canadian. However, only three of my grandparents were born in Canada. I’m not German but my paternal grandfather was born there.
For my husband, two of his grandparents were not born in Canada. His maternal grandfather was born in Dundee, Scotland.
His paternal grandmother was born in England and immigrated to Canada as a child.
I taught my children all of these things about their grandparents so that they would understand that they exist because people before them decided to move to Canada from far away. It’s part of how our family came to be. In a broad sense it is part of our heritage and a part of Canadian culture to accept many immigrants.
I don’t appropriate anything by teaching my family about their grandparents country of birth. But, I would never claim any citizenship but Canadian either.
When I taught school I often had students learn and write about where their grandparents were born. It’s a way of understanding that people come together because of a series of choices that impact future generations as well.
Interested in Scottish heritage but never claiming to be Scottish.
I don’t really understand the question. Surely you just say “my mum was born in Scotland and emigrated to Canada”. And to children “You have some Irish/Scottish/etc ancestors”. My kids were born in America and Australia, both have been raised in Aus since they were tiny and both have Australian citizenship, so they are Australian, with Scottish and Irish ancestors.
Great. I just felt you were suggesting that we were assuming a privilege to speak about the memories and cultural traditions that people in our family brought with them when they immigrated. Also, my grandfather from Bavaria in Germany had many brothers and sisters. Ten years ago my parents attended a large family reunion gathering all the children of the siblings together. We all learned about the region and village Grandpa was born in.
I think this interest is healthy, your piece made me wonder if people living in Europe today think we are trying to claim an ownership of their country that is not intended at all.
Don’t claim a connection to Scotland if you were never born there, seemed to be the whole point. I was trying to learn how not to offend you.
No, it is simply and wholly the phrase "I'm Scottish" or "I'm Irish" etc that grates. It is peculiar to Americans. As I said in the piece, talking about your ancestors and how interested you are in another country is fine, even a compliment. Claming a nationality that is not yours is offensive. But, as I also said, I don't expect people to stop doing something just because it is offensive.
Nope. I'm Scottish. Born and raised. So you literally didn't read the post, and you also don't know what Celtic means. Oh dear, I made it very clear I don't allow trolls, so no more comments from you I'm afraid.
Yet another nice shiny brand new troll, of low intellect and high grandiosity, deleted and banned. Learn your place. This is my house. You will be respectful to me.
It wasn’t until I went to Lithuania that I realized that I’m an American of Lithuanian descent rather than a Lithuanian living in America or a Lithuanian-American. Being American and seeing oneself as an American culturally or ethnically is weird. Especially if, like me, several generations later, you still have 100% of your ancestry from one small other part of the world. Most Americans have a much greater mixture of ancestry. That said, Lithuanians born there but now living in North America accept me as “Lithuanian.”
Ah, St Patrick's Day. When everyone and their cat claims Irish heritage. And the day, in years gone by, when the IRA would go into full-blown fundraising mode in America. Another inconvenient truth.
Ha, true, hadn't even thought of that.
I can see how it'll be harsh for some, but it bothers me too when people claim heritage that isn't theirs. It really resonated with me when you spoke about heritage vs who you are. I've been an immigrant my entire life, I have zero connection to "my roots", and I literally cringe when people try and force out of me where I'm "really from" to associate me with that culture.
Meanwhile, when I went to the US, it was such a culture shock for me to see so many identifying with their supposed ancestral culture, when they have very little to do with it. Some don't speak the language, some don't know the customs, some have never set foot in the place (and... you really need to live in a place for a very long time, be an active participant in the local community, etc. to be able to even remotely claim something like that).
It just deeply unsettles some part of me and it was nice seeing that someone else feels a little similarly. I think there's so much more nuance in the conversation over heritage than saying "I'm [insert nationality your parents / grandparents / whatever are]".
Nationality can also be pretty fickle. My gran was born in Ireland but her dad was born in Lithuania and her mother in Liverpool to a Moroccan father and a Ukrainian mother. My dad has taken Irish citizenship, and my sister applied and got it, but nothing about either of them is Celtic in any way. In the long run, the only real thing we can feel is Jewish, because that accurately describes our being of nationalities with no real ancestry. Except my sister and I (and our mother) do have Israeli nationality, where we also have the longest ancestral history of any of our bloodlines - six recorded generations. Yet my upbringing is basically British.
I agree but hard for some of us whose parents stressed our ancestry.
I was thinking about writing about people who pretended to be Irish. I was thinking about the grand actor Micheal MacLiammoir who was a treasure of the Irish nation and spoke the language fluently but had not a drop of Irish blood in him. Then a lot of people on Substack were referring to Erskine Childers, a soldier of the British Empire who died for Ireland (killed by the Irish who called him “that bloody Englishman” or words to that effect). I was sidetracked by English women who wanted to be Irish. I was then surprised to find that many of the women who fought for Ireland were lesbians. Please check out my posts on Revolting Gonne girls.
Reminds me of the joke about the good Irish Catholic boy who brought his bride to be home to meet his parents. He thought it best to come clean and admit to his upright parents that his fiancée was a prostitute. There was much agitation but eventually the father said, “That’s Okay. I’m a little hard of hearing. I thought you said she was a Protestant.”
Actually laughed at this :)
I like the phrase “ding dong battle against reality.” I may have to steal it.
I would not dare to claim to be Irish and it is unlikely that I will live in Ireland again. Like most people I am a mongrel and a nomad. I tend to keep my head down and my mouth shut on St Patrick’s Day. I have spent a lot of time in Ireland starting in the 1940s (I am very old.) I have lived in Ireland. I have an Irish passport on the strength of my father being born in Cobh, CountyCork. Still have family and friends there.
Well if you have an Irish passport, you could fairly claim to be Irish I reckon :) Thanks for reading and commenting.
But what if you buy one of the kitschy “Irish For A Day” t-shirts to spill your green beer on?
Just removed another troll comment, and permabanned them from commenting. How stupid are you people? I don't allow trolling. You will be silenced. It's just not that difficult to understand.
THANK YOU.
I’d like to know if it’s ok to act like other ethnicities on their special day (or month) based on their group’s stereotype.
The Scots should get some grief. Because, Golf, and drinking, and snooty attitudes.
I’m a bit Scottish, English, Irish and Welsh. About 1/4 German, with a touch of Swedish, Norwegian and maybe 🧊land.
I took up golfing for a while, based on the fact that I felt I should being it's so tied to Scotland, and my father quite liked golf. It is remarkably difficult and hugely exhausting, and I was a bit crap, but I feel like I should go back to it as it was great excercise, provided you walked the greens and did not use a golf cart.
Perhaps you could play golf with Trump.
If you like it, great. I don’t discourage others from partaking in something I don’t like.
The only reason that the Left doesn’t hate on it the way they do other white people activities is because they like it too. I always regarded it as pointless, and a way for out of shape and wanna be athletes to continue to do something competitive. Plus the cancer rates among greenskeeprs, the sexism, and racism early on.
I mean, I always say people should not stop doing stuff just because it's offensive. In my piece on Americentric writers I talk about Russ Abott, who had a very racist and offensive comedy routine he did about the Scots. As his mum was Scottish, he should have known better. But even though I loathed him, other people liked his act. Every time I saw a Scottish person depicted on national TV in the UK they seemed to be a violent, idiotic drunk, and it did deeply offend me. But I have no doubt I offend other people too, que sera sera.
I guess my point in this was just to let Americans know that they are not Irish. Some, like Donna, had never had the truth told to them bluntly before (in her case that she is not Scottish). Maybe they will think twice, but honestly probably not. And, also, I was bored and sick in bed, so it seemed like a good time to poke the bear.
I get very riled up by people telling me “Irish jokes “. I wrote an article about it for an Irish American website. I make an exception if the joke is funny but they seldom are. They are usually mean spirited and spiteful.
I’m giving this a heart, because I’m sure I agree, but I haven’t actually read it, because as an American, I think it’s going to sting. And, it stings enough right now as it is, thank you, no need to twist the dagger. We’re sorry. For everything.
Laughed a little. I like Americans, and I liked America generally. I just also like winding up entitled people, and as it was St Patrick's day it seemed like a good chance to poke the bear. Also, for some reason the Substack algo was pushing my notes at people, so I thought I should ride that wave, and I was sick in bed, bored. I've also found that my stats shoot up when I post a rant of some kind.
All in all, it really doesn't matter much, though it did bring a few trolls out of the woodwork, and passed the time entertainingly.
Troll hunting is always good, clean fun.
How do you suggest people talk about one parent from one country and another parent immigrating to Canada from another country?
I’m Canadian. However, only three of my grandparents were born in Canada. I’m not German but my paternal grandfather was born there.
For my husband, two of his grandparents were not born in Canada. His maternal grandfather was born in Dundee, Scotland.
His paternal grandmother was born in England and immigrated to Canada as a child.
I taught my children all of these things about their grandparents so that they would understand that they exist because people before them decided to move to Canada from far away. It’s part of how our family came to be. In a broad sense it is part of our heritage and a part of Canadian culture to accept many immigrants.
I don’t appropriate anything by teaching my family about their grandparents country of birth. But, I would never claim any citizenship but Canadian either.
When I taught school I often had students learn and write about where their grandparents were born. It’s a way of understanding that people come together because of a series of choices that impact future generations as well.
Interested in Scottish heritage but never claiming to be Scottish.
I don’t really understand the question. Surely you just say “my mum was born in Scotland and emigrated to Canada”. And to children “You have some Irish/Scottish/etc ancestors”. My kids were born in America and Australia, both have been raised in Aus since they were tiny and both have Australian citizenship, so they are Australian, with Scottish and Irish ancestors.
Great. I just felt you were suggesting that we were assuming a privilege to speak about the memories and cultural traditions that people in our family brought with them when they immigrated. Also, my grandfather from Bavaria in Germany had many brothers and sisters. Ten years ago my parents attended a large family reunion gathering all the children of the siblings together. We all learned about the region and village Grandpa was born in.
I think this interest is healthy, your piece made me wonder if people living in Europe today think we are trying to claim an ownership of their country that is not intended at all.
Don’t claim a connection to Scotland if you were never born there, seemed to be the whole point. I was trying to learn how not to offend you.
No, it is simply and wholly the phrase "I'm Scottish" or "I'm Irish" etc that grates. It is peculiar to Americans. As I said in the piece, talking about your ancestors and how interested you are in another country is fine, even a compliment. Claming a nationality that is not yours is offensive. But, as I also said, I don't expect people to stop doing something just because it is offensive.
Thanks for clarifying for me.
Nope. I'm Scottish. Born and raised. So you literally didn't read the post, and you also don't know what Celtic means. Oh dear, I made it very clear I don't allow trolls, so no more comments from you I'm afraid.